I could use a good review or two please
Posted in Real Estate Website Reviews By Cameron North, Wednesday, October 1, 2008.Hi guys. Can you all please give me any feedback you can on my site? It is www.zoomutah.com. I am located in Utah as you probably can tell. Thank you!
You must login or register to post a comment.
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 1, 2008 - 2:30pm.
Not bad, but not great. Why do I have to create an account to view property details?
Here's what I did:
1. Searched,
2. Looked at property,
3. Tried to see property details,
4. I was asked to give my info,
5. Left site...
If you look at your analytics, I think you will see that this is a common visitor trend.
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Honolulu real estate | Real Estate Marketing
Submitted by OpenHouseDealer.com on October 1, 2008 - 2:44pm.
I agree with Justin,
Is there a reason for me to sign up to see property details?
So i just left the site too.
I think you should ask for membership to save the listing details NOT BEFORE
David Yusupov
info@OpenHouseDealer.com
www.OpenHouseDealer.com
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 5:00pm.
The site seemed to be alright. Nothing wrong for asking users to sign up before you show them details if that is how you run your business. Great way to actually get leads and people to call. We are actually in the business of sales, correct?
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Big Island Hawaii real estate
Kauai real estate
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 1, 2008 - 5:46pm.
@Jeff - It's a different approach to business I guess. Personally, I would never stay on a website that requires me to login before seeing standard information.
Ultimately, it's a decision our clients will make. We'll have to see which business model prevails.
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Kauai homes for sale | Real Estate SEO
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 5:53pm.
@Justin - We have been doing it that way and selling a lot of homes. I guess it's working :-)
Not sure what you mean by prevail.
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Honolulu real estate
Big Island real estate
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 1, 2008 - 6:18pm.
@Jeff - there's no doubt that you've been dominating the Hawaii real estate market through the web for many years and selling lots of homes. You're right, I think you should continue doing what you're doing.
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Honolulu homes for sale | Real Estate Search Engine Marketing
Submitted by Bob Wilson on October 1, 2008 - 6:19pm.
@Justin - you mentioned analytics. I started the first agent operated VOW in California with data covering numerous sites that have produced a database that exceeds 200k records. If you had my experience and more extensive analytical data to track from visit to contact using a/b testing methods over a longer period of time, you would see things differently.
The biggest IDX company in the US challenged me on this, so we set up their IDX on one of my sites with it set to a required registration and giving them full access to monitor results. Six months later and they were dumbfounded at the results. My registration generated a much higher visitor to lead ratio than without, and their analytics covered thousands of sites.
The bottom line is that a registration process yields more business. Jeff is probably thrilled that you don't buy into that, but it's understandable. I have dealt with enough younger tech guys that think that they are the consumer, only to see them change their tune with time and real sets of comparison data.
Bob
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 6:25pm.
@Justin - I think I will take your advise. Thanks for watching out for me ;-)
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Honolulu real estate
Oahu real estate
Submitted by Tim O'Keefe on October 1, 2008 - 6:33pm.
In every head to head comparision I have seen(and I have access to hundreds of sites, clients and non clients)hard opt in always wins. Soft opt in is second. No opt in is last.
It only makes sense. If you do not ask you do not get.
Tim O'Keefe
http://www.houseblogger.com
http://www.spiderworkz.com
Spider Juice Technologies
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 1, 2008 - 6:35pm.
@Bob - stats don't lie. I'd love to learn more. We could share some info, who knows, maybe you'll make a believer out of me.
@Jeff - You know I've got to watch out for you, who else will?!
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Hawaii real estate search | Real Estate Marketing
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 1, 2008 - 6:40pm.
@Tim - I agree, hard opt wins...right now. Gen Y is coming, we'll see which business model prevails. All you old guard keep doing what you're doing. Us young guys will appeal to younger people. We'll see who is buying homes in the near future. I'm just banking on a different crowd.
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Real estate in Hawaii | Real Estate Marketing
Submitted by Bob Wilson on October 1, 2008 - 6:58pm.
@Justin - you assume to know my demographics. You would be wrong again. Yesterday I met my latest client - from the dev crew at Sony Playstation where one of my sites and blog is well known among educated, skilled tech types where the average age is under 30.
Word of advice - don't bank on a subset. It's a bad business model in real estate.
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 6:58pm.
You have to go after the current market. A great sales person will adjust to the market conditions and will do well in any market as long as they are flexable and will to change.
That is why the agents that are making calls to expireds and FSBOs on a daily business plus telling the sellers the truth about price are the ones that are going to kill it in this market.
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
real estate Hawaii
Hawaii MLS real estate
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 7:08pm.
@Tim - Just re did our site and I was wondering if you thought our sign up was a hard or soft opt in. Like to hear what you think. www.adrhi Do a search and click on the thumbnail.
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Hawaii Realtor
Honolulu Homes for sale
Submitted by Tim O'Keefe on October 1, 2008 - 7:26pm.
Agreed the big question is the Y's. However these are the same people who are texting like crazy, and using social gadgetry to "connect" to anyone and everyone. Will they continue when they have a wife/hubby and two kids? I am betting they don't. Who has time to spend on twitter or facebook or im'ing? They will like the rest of responsible adults begin to value their time by choice or need. Since Y doesn't really hold a whole lot of buying power right now and when they do I believe they will drop their ways. I think the opt in always works so long as it holds value.
What diferentiates a site with no opt in and a bunch of freely openly accesable listings and no call to action, & one who has the same listings with a call to action/registration? You have the same listings that Trulia has. Why do I care as a consumer?... do I care about you more than Trulia? Both are coming up in the engines.
Whats the dif? And lets face it, Trulia has more dough to market and they offer more than just listings. What happens if all of a sudden your site drops from Google? Crazier things have happened... The site with an opt in or list has a tangible assett. The site that just dropped will hopefully have people remember them (not likely)
And what are you offering, just listings? Listings have gone from a protected unique assett that the industry has to a commodity that anyone can get. So what else are you offering besides just listings? BTW that is what I would use as my hook to get opt ins.
Submitted by Tim O'Keefe on October 1, 2008 - 7:38pm.
@Jeff Manson
I would say very soft opt in.
I like it more direct than that.
At least you ask.. many do not.
But I like to ask before they see anything.
Thats gutsy as most are afraid they will lose people. Oh well. They probably wouldn't have done anything anyway. They are the same that drive from car lot to car lot (or websitE)for five weeks to save $5. (I am light on metaphors at this time of night) Let them drive, let them go and waste your competitors time. Most people who are committed make decisions fast and do not worry about giving up some info. That is called business. Something as I said earlier to Justin that the Y's, I predict will give up someday. When they do commit give them everything you got in your communications and value propositions. Get them to jump thru further hoops to further qualify themselves. A Hoop is merely an offer that will by its action show their qualifications.
Regarding the offer:
You can always tease them with a little info, and then after opt in give the address, a pdf flyer,school data, area report etc as an example.
Tim O'Keefe
SpiderWorkz.com
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 7:40pm.
@Justin - I am sure glad you and your friend on the Big Island are wacthing for me. Thanks a million! I guess I owe you a drink or something?!
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 7:43pm.
@Tim - Thanks for your opinion!
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Submitted by Tim O'Keefe on October 1, 2008 - 7:55pm.
I think we all are stuck in a commodity soup. However, when you are super unique with powerful propositions you can get the Baby Boomer, Xer and Y to opt in all day long. No matter what.
I have always thought of the real estate lead as a pure direct response play.
Up until recently the listings by themselves were enough value to get someone to sign up. I (for a client) have had as good as 1 of 8 average visitors sign up.
With markets shifting and the commoditization fo the MLS that is more difficult to achieve.Still possible and always will be in my opinion But if you want to blow it up you have to stack more value that is unique to you that you can put on top of the MLS listings offer.
You guys are so innovative that I would move beyond the traditional listings and get opt ins from your current traffic to sign into buyer and seller webinars as one example.
and...
People want to feel special. They will pay to feel special and exclusive. How can you actually make them feel special? Not just lipservice. IF they are an investor you can send them a special packet that after some prequalification shows they really belong to something by working with you.
When you get a black american express card they give you a titanium card in a suitcase full of stuff that makes you feel part of a club. They did very little to invent anything. They just reinvented stuff to give to the black card member. If you are a blackcard member you get to be admitted with all these discounts at resorts and clubs. Of course if you went there without the card you would get in either way.
WE have all seen this. But the dynamics are hardly ever used in this industry. This idea is about getting them off of your website and into your funnel. Which should comprise of multiple points of contact.
Hope that helps...
Tim O'Keefe
http://www.spiderworkz.com
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 1, 2008 - 8:03pm.
@Jeff - What friend on the Big Island? I like your new site much better than the old one. It is a much softer opt than you had previously. It is the exact same opt as zoomutah.com, but somehow doesn't seem as overbearing. Good job.
@Bob - You assume that when I speak about Gen Y I mean the entire generation. Of course there are going to be people out of the norm in any subset. And if you read any business book, they say specialize, specialize, specialize. So you appeal to the broader market (there's nothing wrong with that) and I'll narrow my focus.
@Tim - Gen Y is 30 years old already. They will become more responsible, but they will not stop doing what they're doing. They've grown up with technology and it is embedded into their everyday lives.
Everybody here can disagree with my philosophy. In fact, I'll be the first to agree that you all have very good points. So let me do what I'm doing and let me fail. We're supposed to learn from our own mistakes right. Like I said, keep doing what you're doing, we'll see which business model prevails.
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Submitted by Bob Wilson on October 1, 2008 - 9:46pm.
@Justin - you assume anyone older than you doesn't have a clue. The beauty of technology is that it isn't age specific.
You sure like to over-generalize and make assumptions. Why would you say that my clients are a subset, not the norm? Because I can show examples that disprove your generalization? My guess is that they would look at you as just a coder, not a developer, and that is based on how you think. They think big and out of the box, you are thinking small with pre-conceived notions that box you in.
Tell your sellers your philosophy is to focus on a narrow segment of the market and they'll either not list or want out. Not many Gen Yers buying in the Kauai neighborhoods I know firsthand, so I'm curious what business book you read that espoused a strategy of focusing on an age group that is nowhere near peak earning potential when selling a product whose market is in large part 2nd home buyers.
The thing is, I don't think you believe half of what you say, but I'll bet your response is that you are looking forward. The problem with that approach is that the web changes fast, so what you build today may not be relevant tomorrow, which is what Tim has pointed out.
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 1, 2008 - 9:51pm.
@Bob - You are right on with your points and have a good understanding of the sales process. I am glad to see someone that thinks clearly.
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 2, 2008 - 1:05am.
@Bob - I never said that "anyone older than me doesn't have a clue". Thanks for putting words into my mouth. And I've done nothing but compliment Jeff on his business model. In a comment I posted above I said,
"there's no doubt that you've (Jeff) been dominating the Hawaii real estate market through the web for many years and selling lots of homes."
I've also said that I'd like to see your data so that I can learn from it. Again, I quote from a comment above,
"stats don't lie. I'd love to learn more. We could share some info, who knows, maybe you'll make a believer out of me."
Yet, you've shown me nothing...
And you think I'm closed minded then why am I the one doing something new? And why do you care if I'm taking a different approach? Are you my Mom, or possibly an investor in my company? If my business model is so bad, let me fail. It will only benefit you, because I'm not only selling real estate in Kauai...
You want to know what I'm reading?
1. A book by Stefan Swanepoel (just named one of Real Estate's top 100 influential people by Inman News) called Trends Report 2008, Top Ten Real Estate Trends (please don't read it). Page 21, "the immediate...impacts of both Generation X and Generation Y have already become very significant." So who's talking about the future?
2. Joel Burslem's (of Inman News) blog where he stated that he didn't like the fact that Estately.com required you to now login (when they made the change) to save property.
3. Papers from the NAR's chief economist who said, "Housing is a good long-term investment and the younger generation seems to understand that."
All I did was comment on the website, zoomutah.com as requested by the original poster, Cameron. The thing is, I'm not a coder (as you labeled me). I'm a home buyer, just bought my first home, thank you very much. And my main business, http://www.wasabihawai.com focuses on website usability and what the consumer wants (Jeff actually just hired us to do design for one of his sites - so I guess he thinks we know something). I'm just a consumer, and I know what I want (which, understandably, is not what everybody wants) and it's not a hard opt in.
What I truly believe is that there are clients, of all ages, that like your style; and there are clients, of all ages, that like my style. And there's room for both our business models. The difference is that most people are thinking "inside the box" and that's your business model. So even if more home buyer's want what you have, you have more agents to compete with for the business. Me, I'm not even a real estate agent, so I'm bringing a fresh, outside perspective to the industry (I actually thinking in a circle, because I believe what comes around goes around). And my circle is wide open because very few people are actually listening to what the consumer wants.
So like I said, continue doing what you're doing, all the power to you, brah! I wish you the best of luck. But please, don't negate my strategy. It's called innovation. A lot of times, innovation fails, I'm prepared for that. But every once in awhile innovation works. You can't hit a home run unless you swing at the ball. And I'm swinging for the fences, duke.
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Submitted by Cameron North on October 2, 2008 - 5:55am.
Hi Guys,
I didn't realize such a small thing on my site would create the buzz it did. For those of you that think having a sign up process is the right way to go, I applaud you. For everyone else, good luck getting business. Let me tell you the background behind it a little bit.
Initially when the site launched, it had no sign up procedure at all. We logged IP's and searches, so we can tell how many searches were done each day. This also told us how many unique people were at the site each day. We would get a few contacts here and there and I stayed busy enough not to look for another job. This was my first year in Real Estate and I ended up making about 65k, which was 'OK', but I wasn't satisfied with that.
After quite some time, we changed it so that you had to sign up before you could do any searches or anything. We noticed that the number of people doing searches dropped by quite a bit, but we were now capturing everyone's name, phone and email. Some of the info was legit, while about half was not. This gave us a great way to contact the legit members and sell ourselves and our business. I rarely spoke to someone that didn't welcome my call. It's a warm call at that point, not a cold call. I suddenly got extremely busy working with people. I finished my second year in RE off by surpassing the 6 figure mark.
Now in my third year, we made another change. We opened the site up to people so that you could access any section of the website except for the property details of each listing. We wanted people to see what we offered before they had to sign up. This actually made the signup process even easier. Now we are getting even more members and the contact info is more accurate than ever. People are seeing the value they are getting and making the decision to sign up whereas before it was mandatory before they even got any value. Now in my third year, I have been able to hire 4 other agents to work for me, I started a mortgage company with another guy and have all the business I need. I'm even opening the site to advertisers now, which seems to be a success as I have gotten a ton of requests from other businesses. I'm making money buy closing on the home, the loan, selling the leads I capture, and selling a small bit of advertising space on the site. I am easily in the 6 figures again this year, even with the market being the way it is, and all the scare of the public.
I hope you get my point. Those of you that think the sign-up process is not worth it, you may seriously want to reconsider. Those of you that want to question me from a analytics stand point. I'm not that geeky, but my business partner is, and he handles that aspect. What he tells me is that the way the site is now shows very few bounces, and we actually have a time on site of like 18 minutes, and the averages number of each pages that our members view is 12/person. There really is no argument if you've lived through all of it and experienced both signing up and not. Sorry for my ramble, but I thought it was important to share my experiences. Thanks guys!
Cameron North
Real Estate Professional
www.zoomUTAH.com
Submitted by G Dewald | Union Street Media on October 2, 2008 - 8:44am.
We end up discussing registration issues internally a lot as well. Keep in mind that some MLS rules may prevent showing address and other data without having the visitor signed up. Some won't even let you search. So there's always that hurdle first.
Ultimately, your experience is going to be the reality. If you're requiring signups and it's working for you then you know what works.
I don't think that requiring signups is going to be the right approach in every market and in every situation. If you are in fierce competition with aggregate sites (sites that make money on advertising that surrounds real estate and not on real estate itself) then you may want to consider opening your search/detail view due to competitive pressure.
Same thing if someone in your market created a site with open search and detail view and out-promoted you with it.
I think your test-based process is sound. You tried it without, you tried the closed search model and you tried the closed detail view. Your results (people willing to register with real information once they have seen the effectiveness of your search tool) is consistent with what I have observed on more than one site.
As much as I personally prefer the completely open site, I would encourage people to A/B test both ways of handling registration. And also to re-run that test every so often (market conditions change, your competition may change tactics etc).
====
Now for some site review:
It would be great to put even more focus on the home-buying process. The logo etc at the top made me wonder if I was at a TV site or not. Maybe that's intentional. But the amount of advertising does clutter it up a bit and distract the workflow.
Consider more prominent benefit/call to action around registering. You offer more than the ability to see full detail views. The listing alert feature is very successful on the sites my firm makes, I expect it would be for you as well.
Make this on the home page. The benefits you do list on the home page might require more trust than you have yet established.
Those are just some quick thoughts. And yeah, A/B test all that and if it works great and if not then that's great too.
G. Dewald | Union Street Media | Real Estate Internet Marketing Blog
Submitted by Bob Wilson on October 2, 2008 - 8:51am.
Cameron - your experience mirrors mine.
Justin - I didn't put words in your mouth. I said "you assume". which is true. You assume I'm old guard and you made another assumption with your "in the box" assertion. You assume your ideas are alien to those of us who have actually built, operated and sold successful online businesses.
I make business decisions based on what works, not pre-conceived notions or the opinions of a few. Burslem's opinion on registration is not based on results, but his personal preference. Smart business is understanding what the data tells you.
You keep stating that your concepts are fresh. They are not. They have been debated since IDX began. There is nothing you are doing that can be remotely considered innovative. You have a source of listings that are served up no differently than on many other sites. You offer nothing new. You also have a stated business model that really isn't what you think it is. You aren't marketing to an age group. You are doing nothing different than any other real estate site you compete with aside from a registration, which you defend only because you don't like it, not because you have empirical evidence.
BTW, design skills are not what we are talking about here. This discussion has been about user behavior since you first commented about the registration.
FWIW, I wouldn't admit to reading anything Yun publishes, and it's funny that you cite Swanepoel. He was a part owner of a brokerage in San Diego and he is older than I am. Looking forward and evaluating trends is nothing new in business and again not age specific.
Submitted by Jeff Manson on October 2, 2008 - 10:00am.
We weren't talking about design, but since Justin brought it up. I was happy with the design, but not thrilled that it took 6 months to get the design when I was told it would take 30 days and it was in the contract.
Jeff Manson
American Dream Realty
Submitted by Justin Britt on October 2, 2008 - 11:01am.
@G Dewald - As always, very insightful. You have to do what works for you in your particular market. And I think Cameron is doing that. So right on Cameron.
However, I follow the San Diego market which has changed drastically in the past year. Mr. Bob Wilson used to dominate that market in Google. Now he's been displaced by Trulia, Yahoo! real estate and a number of other sites. I was only trying to be nice, and maybe my remarks were taken in the wrong way because I am not as eloquent as G Dewald who said it perfectly,
"If you are in fierce competition with aggregate sites...then you may want to consider opening your search/detail view due to competitive pressure."
I just wish Bob was in my market instead of Jeff Manson who is a savvy business man. Jeff has recognized the change in our own market and has pushed his registration process back a step. Hats off to you Jeff, for real, this is a great move by you and I'm sure it will prove hell on my site traffic.
@Cameron - I was in no way implying that you shouldn't have a sign up process on your website.
@Bob Wilson - Why do you assume that I have something against people older than myself just because I want to target a younger audience with my real estate business (the fact that I read and respect Mr. Swanepoel should be evidence of that)? You assume way too much. First off, this has nothing to do with my Hawaii based real estate site. If you didn't catch the clue when I said,
"I'm not only selling real estate in Kauai..."
I'll have a site in SoCal within a year. And the search will be nothing like you see from real estate sites today. So I thank you for your comments, you have given me a lot to think about. Contrary to many young people, I do take advice very well, and I will take everything you've said into consideration as I plan my move into Cali. Your advice to not, "bank on a subset. It's a bad business model in real estate" is something I'll really take to heart. You've been doing this much longer than I have and I respect that (and when I say longer, please don't assume it's because I think you're older than me - it's because I'm not a real estate agent and I'm learning this business as I go).
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
California real estate
Submitted by Bob Wilson on October 2, 2008 - 5:17pm.
Justin - we know what we are doing. Nothing stays the same, and things are not always as they may appear to you.
Actually, I sold a site that used to beat your previous Kauai site for "Kauai real estate", but for the most part, I got out of the Hawaii market even though I still have a few decent Hawaiian domains.
BTW, sorry I couldn't accommodate you on the sale of that site or the accompanying offer to sell you links instead. You should probably be more careful when you fire off emails about buying links.
Hope your San Diego strategy is more than comment spamming and paid links.
Good luck.
Submitted by Glenn Weilbacher on November 3, 2008 - 2:08pm.
WOW-what a thread....
Seems as though all was said on Oct 1st and 2nd. I will add to this though.
From a specialist in on line real estate marketing with ten years of incredible results.
Since 1999 we have used a full page form to collect a homebuyer's criteria. Back then our clients were generating an average of 50 leads monthly. At the bottom of the form we required name, phone and e-mail. Always at the bottom after the buyer has said yes yes yes...volunteering information. We have had a conversion rate as high as 15%.
Today we create a lead generator in the same way.. a full page home search form and drive traffic to it with PPC. We experience a 8% to 12% conversion rate.
Part of the trick is to use an introductory paragraph that explains that we know buyers may be in an early stage of their home search and do not want to talk to a salesperson. We then say "You will not be pestered by a salesperson"
There is more to it but it works!Our Realtor clients are closing 2 to 4 transactions every month.